DIYARBAKIR, Turkey - Kurdish politician and lawmaker Omer Ocalan, 38, was born eight years after his famous uncle, Abdullah Ocalan, left Turkey for Syria a year after founding the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK). Kept apart by armed struggle and prison bars, they met for the first time on October 23 when the nephew was assigned by his political party to visit Ocalan in his Imrali Island jail as part of efforts to initiate a new peace process between the state and the armed Kurdish group and end a deadly war that has lasted decades.
“Before Mr Ocalan arrived, I entered the meeting room. The director was also with me. I waited standing for Mr Ocalan. Then he came in. He greeted me, said ‘You've also entered politics, I'm following you.’ He sat down on the chair like that. There was a round table. I was facing him. He had brought his water, his watch was in front of him. He said let's begin,” Omer Ocalan recounted his first ever meeting with his uncle during an interview with Rudaw in Diyarbakir (Amed) on Tuesday.
Omer Ocalan had previously submitted numerous applications to the justice ministry to see the PKK leader, but they were all rejected.
Asked if the meeting was a family one or a political one, the outspoken lawmaker replied, “I can say that even within the family, we don't talk much about family matters.”
Most of their hour and 40 minutes-long conversation centred on politics.
“Of course, he asked about the family, asked about his brother, his sister, some of his friends. He talked about the village, talked about Halfeti, also talked about Riha [Sanliurfa]. He asked about family matters for about ten minutes. Then he extensively analyzed things happening in the Middle East, things happening in Kurdistan, things happening in Turkey.” recounted Omer Ocalan, who is a member of the pro-Kurdish Peoples’ Equality and Democracy Party (DEM Party).
Their discussion touched on the major issues concerning Kurds today - the PKK leader’s stance on the latest developments in northeast Syria (Rojava), calls for the PKK to lay down arms, and unity talks between Kurds in Rojava and the Kurdistan Region.
The following is the full transcript of the translated interview with Omer Ocalan:
Rudaw: A few months ago, you went to Imrali and met your uncle for the first time. How did this meeting come about?
Omer Ocalan: As his family and lawyer, I had made several requests [to visit Ocalan]. I, as a parliamentarian, would occasionally submit applications to the minister of justice to make such a meeting possible. Last time we requested a meeting to be held on October 23. Ten to 15 days before that day, we were informed that we could visit Imrali Island. This was the first meeting [between me and Abdullah]. Two days before the meeting, we were informed [that we could go] and we started making preparations. We traveled from Ankara to Bursa and from Bursa to Imrali Island. On October 23, I met the Kurdish leader for the first time. He is also my uncle. For four years and eight months, no one from the family had gone to Imrali Island. Law is not being implemented on Imrali Island. Turkey's constitution is not being implemented. For Mr Ocalan, the law has been abolished. However, for the first time on October 23 I had a meeting with Mr Ocalan that lasted about one hour and 40-45 minutes.
Was this the first time you saw your uncle?
That's right, I'm 38 years old. I was born in 1987, but Mr Ocalan moved from Pirsus [Suruc] to Kobani in 1979. He stayed outside the country for about 20 years. He also stayed in Rojava [northeast Syria], which is also our homeland. He was arrested in 1999. He has been jailed at Imrali Island for 26 years. This was the first time I saw him. It was also the first time he saw me.
How did you feel? Your feelings and his feelings?
In truth, it was a professional meeting. Before Mr Ocalan arrived, I entered the meeting room. The director was also with me. I waited standing for Mr Ocalan. Then he came in. He greeted me, said ‘You've also entered politics, I'm following you.’ He sat down on the chair like that. There was a round table. I was facing him. He had brought his water, his watch was in front of him. He said let's begin.
Was it a family meeting or a political one?
I can say that even within the family, we don't talk much about family matters. Of course, he asked about the family, asked about his brother, his sister, some of his friends. He talked about the village, talked about Halfeti, also talked about Riha [Sanliurfa]. He asked about family matters for about ten minutes. Then he extensively analyzed things happening in the Middle East, things happening in Kurdistan, things happening in Turkey.
How did Ocalan appear physically? Was he in good shape or had he declined? Because we haven't seen any pictures of him for a long time. The last photo of him was shared with the public ten years ago. If you could bring that picture to mind for us.
He looks very similar to that photo. He was strong, in good shape. He walked in. He spoke at length. Sometimes I would interrupt, ask some things, say some things, but mostly Mr Ocalan spoke. He was strong, both physically and mentally. He had information about and awareness of the Middle East, things happening in the Middle East and the world, things happening in Kurdistan. He had command over all developments.
You didn't share much about this meeting.
I shared many things.
You shared very few things. What you shared was that you spoke for about one hour and 45 minutes.
Around that time.
One hour and 40 minutes. You said that Ocalan said if they lift the isolation and conditions are prepared, I have the power to end the violence and establish a political and legal foundation. Isn't that right?
That's correct.
I assume in one hour and 40 minutes you didn't just talk about this one sentence. What did he tell you?
This statement was a summary. This message indicates the basis of our meeting. There is a war and conflict in Kurdistan, lasting for decades and is ongoing. Mr Ocalan said, ‘I have an initiative and the power to end this war and stop the conflict. I can bring this issue to the legal and political arena. But we discussed many other things and definitely we did not just discuss [what I already mentioned].
For example, what were some things people are curious about that you discussed?
I can share. Actually, there were some speculations about certain things. Our co-chair also talked about Gaza. The Turkish media distorted these words, but Mr Ocalan had said this: if the Kurdish issue is resolved, if the Middle East issue is resolved, the future of the Middle East will become bright. But if the Kurdish and Kurdistan issue isn't resolved and the Middle East issue isn't resolved, now there's one Gaza but it will become 50 Gazas. From Baghdad to Damascus, from Damascus to Mosul, from Mosul to Erbil. Turkey is also in the Middle East. Kurdistan is also in the Middle East. Now there's one Gaza. When there isn't a social solution, one Gaza will become 50 Gazas.
Including Turkey?
Of course, of course.
In one of his meetings, Ocalan says security is as important as freedom. Perhaps you discussed this in your meeting. Is this code?
This was recently discussed in the media.
Did he talk about this with you?
This matter wasn't discussed with us. But other unrelated issues were discussed. Mr Ocalan had said this about the solution. We have said many things but it may not have attracted Rudaw’s attention. He said, ‘When I was captured, I said I'm ready to work for a solution. I said it on the plane too, I said it in 2000 too, and I still say it.’ But some people reversed this, they said Ocalan is saying these things to save himself. But he said in 2024, this issue still exists. This issue should have been resolved in 2000, but unfortunately it still hasn't been resolved. He said interesting things about the Middle East too. He said if we and Turkey don't prepare ourselves for a solution, in the future Syria, Iraq, Iran and many plans of international powers also exist. In these places, there's a possibility that a state might also be declared.
Meaning Kurds will declare a state?
These things were discussed. He didn't mention the Kurdish issue, but it's understood of course, Mr Mashallah. I don't need to explain everything one by one. This could also become the beginning of a big war. Because of this, the foundation for a solution was discussed. We talked on October 23. Three months have passed since this meeting. He was very motivated, energetic, strong, his motivation was very high.
You went to Imrali before everyone else but now Pervin Buldan and Sirri Sureyya Onder go to Imrali for meetings. Why isn't your name part of that delegation?
We visited Mr Ocalan as a family. He is my uncle. We make the visits as a family. We want to meet Mr Ocalan as members of his family.