ERBIL, Kurdistan Region - European Union Ambassador to Iraq, Thomas Seiler, has voiced concern that the formation of the Kurdistan Region’s new government could become entangled with Baghdad's political trajectory if the current deadlock continues.
In a Sunday interview with Rudaw, Seiler said he was "a little bit afraid that the formation of the Kurdistan Region Government [KRG], at the end of the day, will be linked to the formation of a new federal government."
The Kurdistan Region held its long-delayed parliamentary elections in October, with the Kurdistan Democratic Party (KDP) emerging as the largest party, securing 39 seats in the 100-member legislature. The Patriotic Union of Kurdistan (PUK) followed with 23 seats. With no party gaining an outright majority, coalition talks between the main Kurdish parties have since been ongoing.
Earlier this month, preeminent Kurdish leader and head of the KDP Masoud Barzani stated that a “better level of understanding” had been reached between his party and the PUK concerning the formation of the Region’s upcoming cabinet. He expressed optimism that the government would be formed ahead of Iraq’s federal legislative elections in November.
For his part, Ambassador Seiler questioned the effectiveness of holding elections without subsequently forming a government. “People have the right to have a government following elections,” he stressed.
The EU diplomat also expressed deep concern over the deadly events that rocked the Kurdistan Region’s eastern Sulaimani province on Friday, calling the use of force “a serious setback” that “must not happen in a country that is on its way to democracy.”
Kurdish opposition figure Lahur Talabany, who leads the opposition People’s Front (Baray Gal) party and is the former co-president of the PUK, was detained on Friday following violent clashes between his armed loyalists and local security personnel.
According to official figures, the four-hour standoff left three security personnel dead and 19 others injured. Rudaw also learned that at least one of Talabany’s loyalists was killed in the violence.
Talabany was later arrested along with one of his brothers and an unspecified number of others. Initially charged under Article 56 of the Iraqi Penal Code for criminal conspiracy, he now reportedly faces additional charges, including premeditated murder.
Ambassador Seiler said the violence and loss of life was “absolutely deplorable,” emphasizing that political disagreements "must be free of violence and must be free of weapons."
Below is the full transcript of the interview with European Union Ambassador to Iraq, Thomas Seiler.
Rudaw: Ambassador Thomas Seiler, welcome to Rudaw, and welcome to Kurdistan again.
Thomas Seiler: Thank you very much for having me.
I want to start from the latest events in Sulaimani. As the ambassador of the European Union in Iraq, how do you see it?
Well, when we received the news of what had happened, I felt quite worried. First of all, the fact that more than 30 people - that is what is said - have lost their lives is absolutely deplorable. It's not something we are used to in the last two or three years in Iraq, particularly not in Kurdistan. If there are political fights between political parties, our aim, our objective as the EU, is that they are fought in a civilian, reasonable, and humane way - not by weapons, not by tanks. And that is a point that made us very worried.
In addition, it leads to a subject that we currently have very often on our plate, on our desk, with the question of armed factions in Iraq. I mean, how is it possible that one politician has a real army around himself - maybe for good reasons, because he feels threatened - but this cannot be the setup of a democratic country. Now, we know Iraq is in the process towards democracy, towards more stability.
But this is, for me, a setback - and a serious setback - particularly in a city where, from the past, we know that it has been very open to open-minded people, to culture, to theatre, to a number of things leading to diversity. But again, the political debate, the political fight, must be free of violence and must be free of weapons. That principle was not respected.
Were you given any explanation about what happened in Sulaimani and did you ask the authorities for clarification?
We have not been notified about any point. I personally have not asked any questions so far, because I have the feeling the dust is still there. There is still not yet clarity up to the last point. Let me also add - for me, the point is not who has been notified, who was aware, who has perhaps given his endorsement. People say the [Kurdistan Democratic Party] KDP knew about this. People say other things. For me, that's not the point.
I repeat, this must not happen in a country that is on its way to democracy - to more democracy. You have democracy to a certain extent. It must not happen in a country that is on its way to more democracy and to a democratic fight about the best opinion and the best policy.
The Iraqi government has been trying to rein in armed groups. Do you think it has been successful, especially in light of recent events in the region?
We have said several times that we have welcomed the way in which Iraq has left itself out of the [12-day] conflict between Israel and Iran, and left out itself also regarding a possible potential involvement by particularly those groups who are close to Iran. I think that is a really good achievement.
Many attribute it to [Iraqi] Prime Minister [Mohammed Shia’] al-Sudani himself. This is probably the case. In any case, what counts for us is that Iraq stood out of it. And yes, it has been, first of all, to the benefit of the citizens, of the Iraqis - from Dohuk to Basra. We saw the rockets flying over Baghdad on one or two evenings, making us very, very much afraid. But the government made it possible to stay out of this.
That is, I think, a very good result. My point is more - coming back to what I said in the beginning - do we have a credible assurance that that will remain like this? And there I come back to the point: over time, I strongly believe that armed factions should become obsolete in your country. I understand the history of your country. And anybody who tells me this is achievable from Monday to Tuesday, I will say, "You are wrong."
But what is missing at the moment - and I would really call upon all political actors, perhaps after the federal elections - is to engage in a debate about a strategy: how to change the whole security apparatus, the whole military structure, in a way that there is a clear command. As, by the way, the [Iraqi] prime minister always claims - that there is a clear command and that there are clear structures.
The monopoly of violence and the monopoly to use weapons must be with the state - full stop - and not any other structures. Again, I repeat, I'm fully aware that we cannot - or you cannot - achieve this from Monday to Tuesday. But what is important is to show to the outside world: we are working on this. We develop a strategy. I mean, there are so many people hired, paid by these groups. They would all become unemployed one day. It's just one little element in all the complexity of this question. But what we would like to see is a strategy for how to change this.
It has been nearly a year since the Kurdistan Region’s elections, yet the Kurdish parliament has not convened. Do you have any information on when sessions will start? Have you raised this with officials, given the EU’s support for holding elections?
To answer very quickly and clearly, I have no indication. I have asked several times, and I was told it's difficult; we have to see question one, two, three, four, five. I'm a little bit afraid that the formation of the Kurdistan Region government, at the end of the day, will be linked to the formation of a new federal government.
Are you afraid of that?
I'm afraid of that because...
That’s a concern?
It's a concern for me because you had elections here - and you are right to repeat how much I have been advocating for this. I think people have the right - again, what I said a year ago - people have the right to have a government following elections. What are the elections if there is not a parliament acting, decreeing, making laws, debating laws, and leading to a government? What is the sense of elections? Again, you may call me a dreamer, maybe, but I still aim at passing this message: that in your country, people should work more and more to these principles, to the implementation of these principles.
Of course, in every country, there are political deals. In every country, there are agreements. But this is so systematic in Iraq that it is detrimental to the democratization process. I can’t even understand, at an individual politician level, that he or she wants to wait to see what is going to happen in Baghdad. But again, it is to the detriment of the democracy in the Kurdistan Region.
My last question about the situation in Sulaimani would be: as EU ambassador, how do you view Kurdish security forces - trained and equipped by Western allies - being used in domestic political conflicts like Sulaimani?
You know very well that not only EU member states, but also the USA, UK, and other Western countries - we support and we help and we train Iraqi forces to become better, to really become professional. I think that objective as such is not debatable and it is a commitment we have had - not least to support Iraq in the fight against Daesh - [the Islamic State] ISIS. And to a certain extent, this remains valid.
Now, obviously, the idea to train people, to train troops, to train military groups of the state, is not that they are abused for such situations. That is a very clear point. Yes, I agree with this. But we should not do the opposite and say, “We stop now educating, training, doing exchange programs with the legitimate Iraqi military forces,” because this has happened. That would, I think, be counterproductive to the attempts and to all the policies we have developed together with the government - also with the Kurdish government - in the last five to ten years.
Iraq’s federal elections are set for November 11. Do officials express concern to you that security or regional tensions could delay the vote?
I actually receive the opposite messages. Everybody is not only willing to hold the elections - they're even eager to have the elections; they want the elections. I think it's also high time. You know that the Council of Representatives is, in a way, half-functioning, and we have very detrimental developments in the parliament, because this is what it is. I got positive messages. Elections should take place - from various sides - and I'm actually optimistic that they will take place.
Now, if a war breaks out - obviously - we have to debate in Ukraine whether Mr. [President Volodymyr] Zelensky is a legitimate representative in the middle of wartime, then you can probably not hold elections anymore. By the way, we will make available an electoral expert mission - not an observation mission - so it will be, if you want, a mini-edition of an accompanying process of the elections. Still, this has been done upon request of [Iraq’s Independent High Electoral Commission] IHEC, and I'm glad that we can do this.
There will not be many people coming, but it is still kind of a way to have a look at how the elections are run - from now on, actually, until the final counting of votes and the way the results are published at the end. So, we are looking forward to the elections and I think, again, it is a very, very good sign of a democratization of your country.
Last time, you mentioned EU support of about €60 million (around $70 million) for Iraq, focused on youth employment and migration. What is the latest on these projects?
Yes. Let me enlarge the subject a little bit by also including [the topic of] internally displaced persons [IDPs] because for us, technically speaking, it is one subject. Yes, there is positive development. Let me say, first of all, something that has to do with it, although it is not directly linked to our programs.
The latest statistics that the European Commission has established about the repatriation - as we call it technically - and reintegration of irregular migrants from Iraq, and most of them are from Kurdistan, to Europe. So, the repatriation has improved very much, technically and diplomatically. It's a very good cooperation with Iraqi authorities, with the embassy in the member states, so that there was no doubt that we would take any measures at the visa level. You know, there is a combination of these two elements: if a country cooperates with us on the repatriation of irregular migrants, then there is no sanctioning on the visa regime. So, that is the news I’m really happy to tell you.
It has to do with the other question. And yes, we have, all in all, 60 million [euros] available. Part of that is already being spent. Yes, we continue working on youth, on vocational educational training - for example, in Halabja or close to it. This morning, I received a kind of request from the Kurdistan [Regional] Government [KRG] to extend this also to the Qandil region. We are going to look into this. If we can help people stay there, yes, we would like to do this. So this is ongoing. But why do I mention IDPs - internally displaced persons - as well? Because there is a new phenomenon that you must be aware of, which we call climate-induced migration.
People from the south, where they had more than 50 degrees [Celsius weather] this year, cannot stay there anymore. I do not even understand how they could stay there the whole time. It's very difficult. There’s no economic basis. There's no family basis. You can actually not live there because of the climate situation.
So, there is also a new phenomenon of internally displaced migration, which we want to address - again - by creating jobs, but also by having a governance system with the government in Iraq in place to orderly manage these flows and not to just say, "Oh, now we have here and there, and what do we do, actually?"
The last point in this context, which has to do with Daesh and ISIS - we have agreed with IOM, the International Organization for Migration, to support the [Iraqi] minister of migration and the national security advisor in granting € 2.4 million [around $2.8] to establish a very profound and well-functioning system of identification of people coming back from al-Hol [camp], through al-Amal [rehabilitation center], and before they are brought back - maybe to their original homes or to other places - that they are given a very non-falsifiable identity so that we know this is Madam X, Mr. Y, and the kids are the kids of Mr. X and Mrs. Y.
So that's what we are now developing. The contract will be signed probably next week. € 2.4 million [around $2.8] doesn’t look like very much, but it is a very targeted measure to help the minister of migration to get the camps emptied and also to repatriate these people. It's, again, for us, a process that is part of the stabilization of Iraq, and I would like to repeat this: that a stabilized Iraq, in every extent, in every request, in every regard, is for us the main political objective also for the years to come.
Has Iraq’s cooperation with the EU on migration led to easier visa access for Iraqi passport holders in Europe?
It's the other way around. It's the other way around - let me explain. The visa rules are the same as they have been. People are verified; if there is a security incident or other criteria, visas will be declined. If the repatriation is bad, then we may impose additional negative visa measures. Since this is positive, we will abstain from doing this, and the normal visa processes can go on.
So, it's not, shall I say, an improvement or a simplification - it is the avoidance of a complication of the system. And that is already a big success. This sounds like, yeah, okay, everything stays as it is - but for us, it’s a big success also in our cooperation, because we can go on with the normal visa processes. Again, if there are security concerns regarding person X, Y, Z, a visa will not be granted. If there are other conditions not fulfilled, it will not be granted. But there are no additional obstacles and no additional hurdles. Businesspeople should be able to travel, students should be able to travel under the normal conditions.
Iraqi airlines remain barred from European airspace, despite government claims of meeting EU requirements. Why is the ban still in place?
It's a good opportunity to clarify things. You are right - we have been working with the [Iraqi] government and with the Iraqi Civil Aviation Authority [ICAA] very closely over the last two years. There are two elements - two pillars, if you want. The first one is when it comes to Iraqi Airways or any other Iraqi aviation company - but particularly Iraqi Airways. Iraqi Airways is on its way to fulfill audit requirements, which we had put up three years ago.
They are now in the process with IATA - the International Air Transport Association - in Canada. They have a technical assistance contract with them, and they are working on this. It’s a contract that lasts two years. My understanding is that one and a half years are over, and they are at the level of seventy-something percent of fulfillment. This is a purely technical thing - nothing else. And they have to continue doing this: fulfilling rule book conditions, procedures.
You know, in safety regulations, a lot is based on procedures. So that’s the one thing - that's the positive thing. The other element is a regulatory element that is not so much a requirement that is a European or EU political requirement. It’s a requirement stemming from international aviation safety. We require that Iraq has a modern aviation law, in which it is clearly governed that the Civil Aviation Authority is independent, capable, and professional to execute the safety work and safety tasks. This is currently not the case.
We have developed a law together with the government, and I must really, here, commend the government in its entirety for the good cooperation with us. We have drafted a law together. The law went into parliament in December, and since then - total standstill. Total standstill. Nothing. Nothing.
I met the chairperson of the transport committee in February. I was reassured that the law would be dealt with. Nothing has happened. I offered to be available for questions. I have not been asked. Now, I cannot tell you why this is the case, but the consequence is clear: the process of liberalizing the aviation and air transport of Iraq to Europe is currently stopped and prevented by the [Iraqi] parliament. That is regrettable.
So the only step left is for Iraq’s parliament to pass the required aviation law?
Not immediately, but it is the key step to make. And the law is there - the draft law.
Given parliament may not meet again before the elections, does this mean the skies will remain closed until after November?
Your conclusions. Again, we are always ready to help and to support this. I have realized there were a lot of misunderstandings in the beginning when I served here. I think what we have made - and what we have achieved - is to clarify all this. Minister [Bangin] Renkani, who is also currently the director general of the Iraqi Civil Aviation Authority, went to Brussels in April. He got all the information. He was very thankful. The ball is in the court of the parliament at the moment. It's not with us. It's not with the government. It's not with the European Safety Agency. It’s with the parliament.
Thomas Seiler, welcome to Rudaw again. I’m glad to have another interview with you.
Always my pleasure.