Ocalan's nephew calls on Turkey to engage with Rojava officials

This phase of the peace process began with your visit to Imrali. Recently, you went again and met with him, but as a family, you visited Imrali on October 31. Let’s start with this question: Did you conduct the meeting in Kurdish or Turkish?

That’s right. Our first meeting was on October 23, 2024, and our most recent meeting was on October 31, 2025. We went as a family, and after 11 years, the leader’s sister also joined us. We conducted our meeting for over an hour in Kurmanji dialect of Kurdish. In the last half hour, we spoke in Turkish.

What was the content of your one-hour conversation in Kurdish?

We mostly talked about family matters. He spoke about the village, about Riha [Urfa] , and the district of Halfeti [in Urfa], as well as about family members and his friends. He also mentioned the neighboring villages and discussed his friends in those areas. Additionally, he talked about the Turkmen villages of Halfeti and many of its PKK fighters who lost their lives, speaking about their families. Politics was also discussed in Kurdish.

Is he still able to speak his Kurdish mother tongue, since he hadn’t spoken Kurdish there [in Imrali] for 27 years and there had been no meetings with him for a long time? Did you notice that he had forgotten Kurdish?

In fact, the leader’s speaking and his Kurdish language - both at the local and academic levels - had improved. The local dialect was more prominent when speaking, but he also used academic Kurdish. There was no forgetting or anything of that sort. He spoke about his friends from 40 or 50 years ago and about the first martyrs as well. There was no sign of forgetting. He was strong in terms of consciousness and calmness, and his memory was sharp and vast.

You said that you also discussed political issues in your meeting. I want you to answer this clearly. On what grounds did Ocalan and the [Turkish] state meet?

We can say these things. A year has passed, and the PKK has taken many steps. A call was issued by the leader Apo [Ocalan]. In response to this call, the PKK decided to dissolve itself in a congress. Although symbolic, they burned their weapons [in the Kurdistan Region’s eastern Sulaimani province]. Among those who did so were many members and leaders of the PKK. Recently, the decision to withdraw from North Kurdistan [Kurdish areas in southeast Turkey] was made and the step was taken.

From now on, the [Turkish] state must also take concrete steps. Leader Apo never debates these matters, but asks, “How will the Kurds act, how will we strategically make the future of the Kurds?" These are the things that are discussed more thoroughly. In fact, the other party here is the state, the Republic of Turkey. The state must also take steps vis-a-vis these steps [by the PKK]. These are more technical matters, more daily matters from which could include the future of the Kurds. 

So, there is no clear agreement about issues like the future of Kurds and the way they could govern themselves - as your party had been talking about for years. 

Of course, we can say that change and transformation are taking place in the party and also in the consciousness of the Kurds. In the new era, politics is changing, and many aspects of the [Kurdish] struggle are changing. Certainly, the Kurds' struggle will continue strongly. A Kurdish consciousness for the future has been created, which is a dynamic and effective force. Kurds are key players in the future of this country. In this regard, they must play their role and their mission, but there are some sensitivities, people must take these sensitivities into account, but the Kurds have now entered a point of no return.

They are changing the level of their struggle, reviewing themselves, and undergoing change and transformation. I am optimistic about a great strategy for the future. Forty or 50 years ago, the Kurds were not taken into account. Now the existence of the Kurds is accepted, and the identity of the Kurds is accepted, but these matters we are discussing will be discussed in the future. Just as there is a need for urgent steps now, these urgent steps must be taken. In the long term, the resolution of this issue will be discussed. Resolving a 100-year-old problem, a 41-year war, and a 52-year struggle, will not happen in one year. It will continue step by step.

Nobody knows the details of what is happening - not journalists, not lawmakers, nor do the people themselves know. Everyone is speculating. Since you are the person who goes to Imrali more than others and meets Ocalan, I ask you: Will the Kurds remain as a nation? How will you preserve your nation and language, and what is the guarantee for that?

The guarantee is the Kurds themselves. The more the Kurds develop their struggle, the more they build their future. You are journalists now, and you have the right to ask any question, but we don't make headlines from here, we don't practice populist politics, nor entertainment politics. We practice politics and engage in a struggle based on the reality of Kurdistan and the Kurds. For this reason, the Kurds have paid a heavy price. This is not limited to 41 years and not limited to North Kurdistan, but in all four parts of Greater Kurdistan, the denial of the existence of the Kurds has been practiced. Now the Turkish state says ‘I will accept the Kurds with their identity, their existence, their language," and this is also our demand.

Is it the state that says that, is there such an agreement?

There is no denying that; this is the first step. The leader [Ocalan], in his meetings, quotes a Chinese saying: The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. This step must be taken. This is a thousand-mile journey, and it will continue for a long time. Now the first step has been taken, and sincere intentions are emerging. Now the work must continue, and in this regard, I have no doubt that the Kurds will build themselves, but there are steps the state must take. We cannot throw everything onto the Kurdish people. The state must also fulfill its responsibilities.

What will the state do? What step will the state take?

First, there are the comrades in prisons and detention centers, and there are activists and members of the PKK. A law must be issued for them. The constitution must be amended, so that they too can participate in democratic politics. We are confident in ourselves. This self-confident consciousness, when the ban is lifted from it, will move forward step by step with great potential. The Kurds have such a basis.

Now, Kurdish politics has been subjected to a terrorist framing on the world stage. Turkish diplomacy was practiced all over the world based on the eradication of the Kurds. When this ban, this terrorist label imposed on the Kurds, is removed, the Kurds will take great steps in Kurdistan and in the Middle East as well, and they will build themselves.

Now, these steps you said the state must take are the results of this problem. So, what are the fundamental steps that will be taken? Do you talk about them? Is there bargaining or guarantee?  

In politics, bargaining is done with self-confidence. I understand what you are saying. Language, identity, statehood, and self-governance are fundamental things for us. But in politics, we are advancing in this struggle step by step. Leader Apo has set the foundations. He has been there for 27 years, and all his work is focused on the resolution of the Kurdish issue. There is also a 1000-year-old relationship, one must also take into consideration. Now not just for North Kurdistan, but how the Kurds will live with other peoples, with the Arabs and the Persians, and how must Kurds live among each other.

Is the PKK’s disarmament announced strictly concerning the group’s fighters in Turkish territory, or does it also include the predominantly Kurdish western Iran (Rojhelat) and northeast Syria (Rojava)?

The PKK speaks for itself, and its leader also represents it; the PKK’s decisions are clear. Kurds do not only live in North Kurdistan and the major cities of Turkey - they also live in Syria’s Rojava, in Iraq’s Kurdistan Region, and in [Iran’s] eastern Kurdistan [Rojhelat]. The Kurds in Syria, in Rojava, must make their own decisions, and their relationship with the Syrian regime must be established. They need to reach an agreement with it.

The Turkish Republic frequently places Syria on its agenda. The Kurds there are our brothers. When they [Ankara] do not reach a resolution with the Kurds of North Kurdistan, they must also consider the sensitivities of Rojava. Regarding weapons, they have arms in their hands - let them make their own decisions, as they have the power to do so.

So, there is no bargaining between Imrali and the state?

We do not see this, but there may be negotiations. Negotiation between states is also a reality. Kurdistan is divided into four parts, and it has been divided among four states. Certainly, one affects the other, and we see this reality, but the decisions of Syria, and the decisions of Rojava, must be made by the Kurds of Rojava. The Kurds of Rojava have made very great sacrifices, about 20,000 of their young men and women have been martyred there. The Kurds stopped the [the Islamic State] ISIS in Kobani, and the world and Europe saw this. I believe in the future that the Kurds of Syria, Rojava, will determine their future. They are also working for Syria. Now the Syrian regime also needs the Kurds of Syria. That is why we say that the Kurdish people are a wise, advanced, and democratic people, and that resolving this issue within the framework of unity is in the interest of the Kurds of Syria.

You said that perhaps the issue of Syria was discussed, and a deal and bargain were made about it. What do you mean?

The struggle of Rojava is very special and sacred to us. Great sacrifices have been made there. We are not saying that a bargain is being done over Syria and the Kurds of Syria, we are not saying anything of that sort, but [the PKK] leader’s influence extends to Rojava and Syria as well. The issue of [the Kurds in] Syria must be resolved with the regime. When there is a problem in Syria, its statehood must be accepted by the Turkish state. Those negotiations must take place with the Syrian regime and the Kurds in Syria, I mean SDF [Syrian Democratic Forces], and I mean the Kurds of Rojava, meetings must be held. These talks also influence Middle Eastern politics…

Many developments in the Middle East have affected the Kurdish issue, but the Kurds are organized. The Kurds have drawn lessons for themselves from over 100 years. Now there is a great unity. The SDF does not only include Kurds but Arabs too. It includes many different people, different identities, and different beliefs. The Kurds of Syria can resolve their issues with the Syrian regime, and the Turkish state must also be softer, more understanding. Why must it understand? The Kurds of Syria are our brothers, and there is no difference between Turkey’s Pirsus (Suruc) and Rojava’s Kobani.

Well, if there is an agreement, why doesn't Ankara deal with Qamishli and deals [only] with Damascus?

We have said this many times, even in the media. In addition to [Syrian interim President] Ahmed al-Sharaa, Turkey must be able to sit with [SDF chief] Mazloum Kobane [Abdi] and with [senior member of Rojava’s ruling Democratic Union Party, PYD] Salih Muslim, [foreign relations co-chair of the Democratic Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria, DAANES] Elham Ahmed, [leading PYD figure] Aldar Khalil and [member of the PYD’s presidential body] Fawza Youssef.

But this 100-year-old policy is still continuing. In this way, the existence of the Kurds is not a threat to any nation. Their existence should not be considered a threat to Kurds, and appropriate steps must be taken accordingly. So far, the issue is gradually being understood. Within the framework of reconciliation, Turkey must also play its positive role and bring a resolution to the Kurds of North Kurdistan. They [Turkey] should also accept Syrian Kurds. Their identity, existence, language, and homeland must be accepted.

Has any secretariat been established in Imrali?

There are now four people in Imrali prison. Three of them have been with [the PKK] leader for years. Comrade Veysi [Aktas] was released. Recently, three prisoners were transferred there. One experienced health issues, so he was returned to his place [cell]. Now there are four detained comrades with the [PKK] leader, no one else, as far as I know.

So no one leaves or enters from outside except the Imrali delegation?

As a family, we go. The Imrali delegation is the DEM Party [Peoples’ Equality and Democracy Party] delegation. We hope in the future the 51-member parliamentary commission will send representatives to Imrali Island and meet the [PKK] leader.

Does he have a secretariat or not?

I don't know about a secretariat, I believe there isn’t one. It is like before. 

I am asking this because there had been a request to appoint a secretary for him.

That's right, this is a necessary thing. In the future, when an agreement is reached and the resolution progresses, the Turkish society must also accept these matters. Now, the current process that has been ongoing for a year, the way life was on Imrali Island a year ago, is the same now, but family visits are available although insufficient. The DEM Party delegation goes there.

Did Mr. Ocalan mention his freedom or his release in your meetings with him?

This is the fifth time we have met with leader Apo, and he has not talked about these matters. When our friends go, and the DEM Party delegation too, as far as we know, he does not talk about these matters. He sees the Kurdish issue and before everything else, and he sees the resolution before everything else. The PKK has issued a statement in this regard. The Kurdish people’s demand is the freedom of leader Ocalan. When a resolution is reached, and when this conflict that has lasted for decades ends, everything must be taken into account. In the agreement, the leader of this uprising must also live in free conditions.

Does he have contact now with prominent Kurdish politician Selahattin Demirtas? I mean, do they send messages to each other?

We met five times. In these meetings, Mr. Selahattin Demirtas was not mentioned.

Did you talk about the DEM Party in your meeting? It has been said that the party must rebrand, at Ocalan's request. According to the new developments, when will the DEM Party align with Ocalan’s path?

The DEM Party remains on Ocalan’s path, and in our five meetings, the DEM party was discussed because its potential is very great as it garnered about six million votes, but leader Apo is not satisfied with this. He wants the party's potential to be greater and wider, and to be accepted on the Turkish side as well. Many discussions take place about the party, about its management and organization. He wants it to become stronger. There must be potential and opportunity and no denial so that we can practice Kurdish politics in every city in Turkey.

In Turkey, there are three branches of politics: The first, those who rely on the Islamic religion and their reference is this, represented by the [ruling] Justice and Development Party (AKP). The other is nationalism represented by the Republican People's Party (CHP) which leads the second line.

The DEM Party represents the third line - the democratic line. It has to expand and grow in Turkey. It has the potential, and it must change its conditions accordingly. For this reason, the demands are many. For this reason, sometimes criticism comes, and sometimes suggestions from the leader Ocalan.

Will the day come when Ocalan becomes the chairman or co-chair of the DEM Party?
 
Leader Ocalan's status exceeds the chairmanship of the DEM Party. I see it this way, this is my assessment. He has developed a very great awareness. He acts with a strategy more than daily politics and daily words. He has brought the issue from nothing to this point, but we do not know what will come in the future, and what will happen. Although the DEM Party is doing work, leader [Ocalan’s] status is important for all four parts of Kurdistan.

Did you talk about the Kurdistan Region in your meeting, about the Kurdistan Region?

Many times. He talked a lot about the Kurdistan Region.

What does he say?

He sent his regards to them. We have said this to the officials of the South Kurdistan leadership. He follows closely. He was giving his lengthy assessments in the field of democracy. He talked about the KDP [Kurdistan Democratic Party], and he talked about the PUK [Patriotic Union of Kurdistan]. He said this too, he said there is democracy within the KDP, but this democracy must be strengthened. He attaches great importance to South Kurdistan, and he attaches importance to the leadership of South Kurdistan administration and the land of South Kurdistan.

Ocalan loved football very much, and his favorite team was Galatasaray. Now there is also Amedspor. Did you talk about this issue?

We did not talk about the issue of sports, but what I know is that leader Apo attaches importance to sports. He is aware of Amedspor, this is what I know, but everyone knows that he was a fan of Galatasaray. Now I don't know what he does. He may not have time to pay attention to sports, but in the field of organization, there are eight points in his paradigm. And within the point of organizing the social field, sports is also included.

So he values Amedspor?

He values Amed in every way.

Now in Amedspor, they raised a banner in memory of Mustafa Kemal Ataturk. When you saw that, what did you feel? Does the spirit of the process have anything to do with this matter, or is it outside the line of this process?

We can discuss Mustafa Kemal’s role on different levels. In the establishment of the Turkish Republic, an alliance was first made with the Kurds. Then the Kurds were kept excluded in the Constitution. In the system, the Kurds were marginalized several times. These things are not forgotten not only by me, but also by the Kurdish people, but we love Amed, and we love Amedspor too. We want Amedspor to successfully qualify for the Super League and show struggle and to become an option in the field of sports too and to represent the Kurds, the contribution of the Kurds to sports, and the culture of the Kurds on the world stage, but these issues take time but our stance will reflect that of Kurds.