ERBIL, Kurdistan Region - The head of the Kurdish National Council (ENKS/KNC) said earlier this week that a return to centralized rule in Syria is “impossible,” stressing that the country must choose between division or decentralization.
In an interview with Rudaw’s Nalin Hassan on November 30, Mohammed Ismail said that Syria "will find it impossible to become a centralized state again," and that the country "will either be divided or must possess a decentralized policy."
"It is impossible for Syria to return to centralization. No one will accept that. If anyone imagines that Syria can be run by one person and one party, plunging Syria back into that crisis, that cannot happen," he added.
Since the fall of Bashar al-Assad’s regime in December 2024, Syrian Kurds, Alawites and Druze have called for the establishment of a federal government in Damascus, citing decades of repression under Assad and the violence the minorities endured following the regime’s collapse.
While the transitional government initially rejected any form of decentralization, it later softened its tone. Najeeb Ghadban, an advisor to Syrian Foreign Minister Asaad al-Shaibani, confirmed to Rudaw in early October that “there is openness” in Damascus to the idea of decentralization.
The ENKS is an umbrella group of Kurdish opposition parties in northeast Syria (Rojava).
Below is the full transcript of the interview with Mohammed Ismail, Head of the Kurdish National Council (ENKS/KNC):
Rudaw: Let me start with the final situation in Syria. What is your latest assessment of the situation in Syria? Specifically, do you not see that without establishing a new constitution and a new system, stability and peace will not be created in Syria?
Mohammed Ismail: The situation in Syria is very complex and changes in some way every two months. Initially, when their names hadn't been removed from the terror list and sanctions hadn't been lifted, their stance was different; some pleasant and sweet words were said about the components. We gladdened our hearts and thanked them. Later, when sanctions were lifted and their names were removed from the terror list, and contracts worth billions of dollars were signed with them, their stance turned into something else. Truly, this is a cause for danger. Specifically, the unilateral declaration of the constitution and the formation of a government without listening to or including the components - that was a source of concern for us.
As Kurds, from the beginning, at the April 26th conference which was held on the initiative of President Masoud Barzani and with the cooperation of Mr. Mazloum Abdi, we, as all Kurdish political forces, were able to demonstrate a unified Kurdish vision in two parts: one part was our vision for the future of Syria, and the other part was what Kurdish rights would be within it. We formed a joint delegation - a joint delegation, not a joint presidency as you mentioned.
Are they co-chairs?
Not co-chairs, it is a joint presidency [of the delegation]. One head of their delegation and one head of ours. That delegation trained and met; we identified the points before us that needed to be discussed first and why we set those points, and we conducted good research and training on them. Honestly, so far the delegation is balanced, and no disagreements or differences have appeared between us within the delegation, but until now, the government of Sham (Damascus) has not invited that delegation.
Why? What is the reason for Damascus not inviting that delegation?
They pretend that there is the March 10th agreement between Mazloum [Abdi] and [Ahmed] Sharaa. That agreement covers administrative, military, logistical, and technical issues. They say they formed such a delegation, and that delegation has not yet reached any agreement with the government. We say that delegation is important - technical, administrative, and military issues are important—but what is most important, and more important than all of them, are the rights of a people. Meaning, the joint delegation represents the Kurdish political vision, the rights of a people and a nation that has struggled for decades, made sacrifices, and endured hardship and violence. Our people will continue this stance of struggle until Kurds achieve recognition of the existence and rights of the Kurdish people within the heart of the Syrian constitution. They want to put this aside and ignore it, prioritizing technical, administrative, and military issues - meaning personal and individual issues - without acknowledging that there is a people, a nation with its own distinct rights and characteristics. The Kurdish component is different from all other components in Syria because it is a nation with its own characteristics; the Kurdish issue is in Syria, but it has now moved from a narrow domestic framework to an international level.
In Syria, as we see it, a year has passed since the change of power, but the name of the republic has not changed and remains the "Arab Republic." A constitution was written that gives much power to the president, and the central system within it is strong. Is this suitable for Syria?
Certainly, no, it is not suitable. Syria, Ahmed Sharaa, and Hay'at Tahrir al-Sham (HTS) cannot administer the authority of Syria without the Kurds, the Druze, the Alawites, the Syriac, Chaldean, and Assyrian components, or without the civil and urban Sunni Arabs. It is necessary to listen to the nations, value the presence of the components, and satisfy those components—foremost among them the Kurdish component, which has its own characteristics, its own distinct language, distinct national needs, and a long struggle, and whose political forces are organized together. We are a political force and have a political vision for the future of Syria. Because the government's situation is still weak, this government currently only talks about the international level.
Recently, Syria joined the international coalition against ISIS. What does this mean? This means Syria has left the "resistance and opposition" [Axis of Resistance] front of Iran and Russia and has fallen into another front that is 180 degrees different. A different system needs to be created in Syria, and changes must be made to every Syrian expression. These changes must be made according to a proper reading, good decisions must be made for them, and the components must be listened to. The political forces of Syria must be listened to. Syria has newly entered the international coalition and wants to solve its problems with neighboring countries. Unfortunately, this is the problem with the regimes in our region; they are ready to compromise with everyone abroad, but they are not ready to compromise for their own people. This is the situation of all regimes in our region, the Middle East. They are ready to satisfy Israel, Turkey, neighbors, and America abroad, but they will not satisfy their own people. That is not right and will expose Syria to evil and hardship.
The name of the Kurds and other nations was not in the constitutional declaration, nor was there any clause for non-Arab nations in that constitution. Do you, as ENKS, accept this?
Naturally, we do not accept it. We issued a statement regarding the constitutional declaration and made our stance public. Regarding the composition of the government that was formed, the interim government, we clarified our view that we are concerned and dissatisfied. So far, having formed this delegation, we have extended the hand of negotiation. We do not say that this new authority that has come is our enemy, but according to their steps - as you mentioned - the rights of nations are not in their minds. The key to the solution is for us to first open the door to negotiation, in hopes that something enters their minds and they see the interests of their people, themselves, the country, and Syria. If this is not done, we will then prepare ourselves as the opposition. For us, the rights of the Kurdish people are a strategic issue.
So, do you as ENKS still demand federalism for Syria?
Not the issue of federalism [by name]; we say decentralization. Decentralization based on negotiation, and reaching an agreement on what is in Syria's interest. Not that they accept nothing and we raise our demands to a level that becomes mere slogans. When we negotiate, it is in the interest of this country; that negotiation is based on the unity of the Syrian people and the unity of Syrian geography. On this basis, we negotiate for Syria's future - a bright Syria that includes all its people. We, as a political force, the Kurdish National Council, and specifically the Kurdistan Democratic Party-Syria, cannot turn our strategic issue into a tactic. For us, no matter the cost of the strategy in our struggle, we will endure it and sacrifice for it. Our people have sacrificed and continue to do so. We negotiate with tactics, but our main strategy is the existence of the Kurdish people and the rights of the Kurdish people.
But does the decentralization you demand and negotiate for reach the level of federalism?
Even regarding federalism, the federalism of one state is not like another. The UAE's federalism is not like Germany's; Germany's is not like Switzerland's. Meaning, it is whatever the government and people of that country agree upon, whether it is federalism or broad decentralization. Everyone in Syria must come to believe in a multi-national, multi-religious, and multi-party Syria. This diverse Syria is the key to being able to enter into other issues, negotiate seriously on the interests and future of this country, and reach good decisions. A negotiation leads to a decision that satisfies the components. Those components must not be subjugated. Uniting people by force is unacceptable. The regime used to do this, saying the Syrian people are one.
So it won't be centralized, correct? Meaning, without a decentralized system, Suwayda won't return to Damascus, and the coastal regions won't be calm?
It is impossible for Syria to return to centralization. No one will accept that. If anyone imagines that Syria can be run by one person and one party, plunging Syria back into that crisis, that cannot happen. The Syrian people, having seen all that sickness and complexity over the past 15 years, will find it impossible to become a centralized state again, to accept a harsh, rigid authority that violates global principles, or to return to leaving the country's problems unsolved. Syria will either be divided or must possess a decentralized policy.
A parliament was established a while ago and created in a specific way. Do you, as ENKS, recognize this parliament?
So far, that parliament is not brave. One-third [of the seats] was put in the hands of the president, and so far, he hasn't been able to resolve it. The provinces of Raqqa, Deir ez-Zor, Suwayda, and Hasaka have been delayed so far. Why? That means there is a problem, a problem they haven't been able to solve. There must be a transitional parliament where representation of all people is visible. The parliament that was entirely by appointment, not election - a weak form of selection under the name of appointment - has been designated. That designation is not yet brave; it wants to gain international recognition through self-imposition to be able to work. What is the importance of parliament? The existing constitution is amended in parliament, and decisions are made in parliament. In the world, administration is not just the constitution; it is the constitution and decisions. Those decisions are made in parliament and are added to or subtracted from. The Syrian people need to learn to enter a new phase, not be ruled by guns and security agencies. Let them be aware of each other, let the opposition be visible, let them bang on the table, walk out, and return again. Dialogue and conflict exist in all parliaments of the world; people express their will. When people cannot express or show what is inside them, the country does not progress; without criticism, a family does not progress.
Let's talk about the joint Kurdish delegation going to Damascus. You mentioned they say an agreement exists, which is the March 10th agreement, and negotiations are happening regarding that. Is the departure of the joint Kurdish delegation dependent on the success of the March 10th agreement?
No, March 10th is a technical issue. Meaning military, administrative, economic, and service [issues]. Those services have a chance to be solved in some way. What is the meaning of the March 10th agreement? Dissolving the SDF (Syrian Democratic Forces), dissolving the administration, and merging with the state. The principles are all general, and that is the final meaning. You cannot say that is in the interest of the Kurds, because it doesn't relate to the Kurds [as a distinct entity], but rather there is an administration in the region. Whereas the Kurdish delegation represents a nation, a people with distinct characteristics, negotiating with its country regarding the future of the country and the rights of that component. This is a new page, and stability will not be created if the Kurdish problem is not solved. The Kurdish people of Syria, in all their forms, are a component.
What is the reason for the delegation not going to Damascus, and what do they attribute it to?
I believe the Damascus government is not serious and hasn't paid attention to it. International parties have also not been cooperative. The French and Americans were with us daily, saying, "You agree, and we will come with you to Damascus, set a date, and assist you." But after we agreed internally, both sides disappeared. The Americans are mediating in the technical sphere and say that having two delegations in Damascus causes confusion. However, recently a belief has emerged that if both delegations are in Damascus, it would be better. We constantly want to negotiate and dialogue as Kurds and have a joint delegation. Because the agreement and the document we agreed upon has a large number of Kurds behind it. Let the whole world, the legitimate government, the people, and neighboring states know that the majority of the Syrian Kurdish people support this joint delegation, because truly it was a historic step; all political parties, social and cultural organizations, youth and women, even put pressure on the international side, our friends, and our surroundings. The Kurdistan Region of Iraq also assists us so that the legitimate government can trust this delegation and negotiate with it.
Why does Damascus want to negotiate more about oil and weapons with the Kurds rather than political and national rights?
They run from the national question under the pretext that they don't sit with political parties. But even the technical issues won't go according to their desires. They think that whenever they want, the administration and military side will be immediately handed back to the government; it is not like that. There is a force and there is a territory. We do not like for this to be solved through war and cruelty; we prefer a table of negotiation and dialogue be set. We believe that America, France, and neighboring countries related to the Syrian file are not against the Kurds and are not against our views. This is important. Our cause is known and has moved from a narrow internal framework to an international level. The Kurdish cause can no longer be hidden.
On the domestic level, do you feel a type of chauvinism is being created against Kurds in Syria, such as when a shoe-shining box was raised to insult Kurds during the protests in recent days?
The upper circle of the Damascus administration and the second circle below it are educated to some extent and do not speak incorrectly in political terms. However, their lower circles are racist and extremist, and nothing in them has changed. This is a reality. I can picture it this way: the top and second circles speak diplomatically to an extent, but the third and fourth circles and below are totally different. It is the same mindset and the same face; only the top class wears suits and ties, while the other side remains as they were. The rights of peoples are not in their heads; they only possess extremism, racism, hostility, and revenge. This is a fact. A state cannot be ruled this way. Those who are educated are few in number and are not enough. When people see the product of these people in action, their reputation tarnishes. The eyes of the Syrian people have opened, and they will not go back. The Syrian people in general, and specifically the Kurdish people, will not go back. The Kurdish cause has been clarified to the world; within the framework of that Syrian opposition and during the 13-14 years of the Syrian crisis, thousands of seminars and diplomatic negotiations in the field of international relations have taken place, and the Kurdish cause has been clarified in research centers.
I'm coming back to Erbil where you and Mazloum Abdi, the General Commander of the SDF, met with President Barzani. What did you discuss in that meeting?
His excellency Mr. Masrour Barzani sat between us, and we sat on his left and right, and we went together to the hall of the Middle East Peace and Security Forum. This was a very important sign and message. The Kurdistan Region always supports Kurdish unity and wants Kurds to be united and strong. This is a message to everyone. Secondly, the Kurdish National Council is not less than anyone or any party; rather, both are together and equal. This is important. After that, we saw his excellency President Barzani. President Barzani always cares for the Kurdish people, the Kurdish cause, and Kurdish unity. Kurdish unity and a unified stance are principles for him, and he emphasized this and supported us in this unity. The delegation is important to him - the delegation and the vision we agreed upon. His excellency Barzani always says, "Whatever you agree upon, I commend you and support you in every way." Later, we also saw President Barzani separately as the delegation of the Kurdistan Democratic Party-Syria, consisting of the secretary and its political bureau. In that meeting, he again emphasized Kurdish unity and a unified stance. He also presented his views on the future. On one hand, he discussed his relations with the Baghdad government, the difficulties after the Iraqi elections, the prospect of forming the Iraqi government, and the obstacles facing the Kurds. We also discussed our views regarding the situation in Syria and Rojava [northeast Syria]. It was a very successful political meeting.
Is the Kurdistan Region's support for Rojava viewed without sensitivity by Damascus?
Whether there is sensitivity or not, the Kurdistan Region and his excellency Barzani support the Kurdish cause in every part of Kurdistan, and they want and protect Kurdish unity. His Excellency Barzani is known in the region for not engaging in violence or hostility against people but dealing through alliances and solving problems wisely and intelligently. Therefore, regardless of whatever sensitivity Damascus views it with, or how any other international party or neighbor views it, that remains up to them. The Kurdistan Region is a loyal supporter of us. We are allies, and it hasn't used us; rather, it sees us as its ally and supports and assists us wherever we may be, and does not want the Kurdish cause in Syria to weaken.
The Kurds of Rojava are numerous in Europe and other countries. What can they do to support Rojava obtaining a legal definition?
The Kurdish diaspora has entered a very good phase. Previously it was scattered, but now, as a Kurdish diaspora, through gatherings, meetings, and contact groups, it has become strong. We all need a Kurdish lobby to exist. A strong lobby of businessmen and personalities, as well as Kurdish youth, young people, journalists, and intellectuals. Now they have opened their offices in all countries, and very important work is being done to benefit from Kurdish energy in Europe to support our cause, because there are more opportunities and freedom there. Our contact with them is continuous. Their train is on the right track and moving, and they are supporting their cause.
How is your relationship with other countries? Do you ask the US and Europe to discuss legal guarantees for the rights of Kurds and other nations and religions in their meetings with Damascus officials?
We, as the Kurdish National Council, have negotiations with all countries relevant to the Syrian file, whether it be America or Russia. The countries of the international coalition against ISIS and European countries - we have negotiations and relations with all of them, and we like it to be this way because we have a cause and we clarify our cause to them. I believe that these international parties are not against the Kurdish people and their demands, because the rights we demand in Syria do not harm anyone's rights. If Kurds achieve their rights, no harm comes to anyone else's rights; on the contrary, the country becomes enriched by it, and Syrian society becomes strong through it. Because of this, our relations with all international parties are good, and this is important to us. The Kurdish diaspora is important, as you mentioned earlier, and it is also important that we are in contact with influential international parties relevant to Syria. During these 14 years of the Syrian crisis, we have contacted all of them, explaining the Kurdish cause through dozens of embassies, ministries, people, and research centers. I have not felt that some are against our cause.
